Official Luthiers Forum!

Ok, when using a tuner to intonate, I'm wondering...In a perfect world I tune the guitar open to concert pitch...I play the harmonic at the 12th fret, and compare the reading with the string fretted at the 12th fret, and they're the same...I'm perfectly intonated! Now, reality # 1...concert pitch, 12th fret harmonic, compare with 12th fretted, reading # or b, adjust saddle accordingly...that much I'm OK with...now, a new reality for me...concert pitch, 12th fret harmonic...the harmonic is # from the open note! Do I calibrate my tuner, and go for a fretted note at the 12th fret that matches? Or do I have problems at the nut? I've checked my fretboard for correct slotting/scaling, and all the frets look good...Any wisdom from you Zen intonation masters out there?   

_________________
http://www.presnallguitars.com

Larry,

Is this happening on all strings or just one? Does it happen when you mute all the other strings apart from the one you are "harmonicing" (lovely word )? Sometimes I have had "sympathetic" ringings from other strings that move the reading.Dave White38627.7211342593

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Dave,

I didn't check that carefully...it could in fact be sympathy vibes from adjacent strings...I'll look into it and let you know...also could be the tuner, a little Korg CA-30...I gotta get a Peterson!

_________________
http://www.presnallguitars.com

A couple of things....

You can do this with a standard tuner, you just have to take your time and listen more. One way to check your intonation is to play notes on the 3rd and 4th fret and then try that on the 15th and 16th fret and see how they compare. On a properly intonated guitar they should be spot on, don't use a harmonic to check your tuning, use an open string and Dave is correct, make sure you cover the other strings AND (I simply can't stress this enough) that they are all at pitch and tuned as well before you check your saddle.

Also if you are getting a # note from doing a simple harmonic then yeah I would really look into getting a better tuner, they should match always and it has nothing to do with your fretting. One thing to consider is how your tuner is hooked to the guitar, for my peterson I have a clip that I put on the headstock, I stopped using the built in mic because I ran into problems with some notes not being loud enough for it to hear. If you have a pickup in the guitar I would use that if possible, it will certainly help.

Let me know if that helps...

-Paul-

_________________
-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

Larry, always use paired frets as Paul recommends as well as the harmonics. All tuners are notoriously iffy when it comes to harmonics. I also use the little Korg and I have never had reason to doubt it's accuracy, in fact I checked it on the signal generator at work and it came out spot on right across the range. My best tuner though is exceptionally expensive to maintain, but is also multi-functional. My wife is a classically trained violinist and has perfect pitch, I just ask her if it sounds right!

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Yes Todd she does, a cellist with the London Symphony Orchestra, also with perfect pitch, but very high maintenance. Both of their parents were professional musicians, so I guess it's in the genes. I expect I was a great disappointment to them!

ColinColin S38628.5162384259

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

colin, your wife's perfect pitch must be both a blessing and a curse. it must drive her wild having to deal with the inherent outoftuneness(did i just invent a new word?) of your fretted creations.

many years ago i was somewhat involved with a classical singer who had perfect pitch and she had great difficulty singing with an orchestra or any instrument which was the least bit out of tune. folks just didn't get that she was on key and it was the instruments that were off.

Awwwwwww the wows of tempered intonation

[QUOTE=crazymanmichael] colin, your wife's perfect pitch must be both a blessing and a curse. it must drive her wild having to deal with the inherent outoftuneness(did i just invent a new word?) of your fretted creations.

[/QUOTE]

She doesnt mind too much as I tune the guitar in one of the "equal tempered" methods so it doesn't go out of tune so much up the board. And,I don't get that 2nd/3rd string major 3rd error.

I think I've posted it before:

1. tune first string to E using reference tone or tuner.

2. tune 6th string to harmonic on the 5th fret of the 6th string (octave harmonic)

3. fret 5th string at 7th fret tune to 1st string.

4. fret 4th string at 2nd fret, tune to 1st.

5. fret 3rd at 9th fret tune to 1st.

6. fret 2nd at 5th fret tune to first.

This way the strings are all tuned to fretted notes to the same note and contain the "out-of-tuneness" for an equal temper.

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.